Why debates about hip-hop culture are a bad influence on society.
Ill Doctrine is a video blog on music, politics and culture, launched in 2007 by Jay Smooth. We will be premiering two episodes a week on ANIMAL. Older episodes can be found at IllDoctrine.com and you can follow Jay on Twitter here.
Tricia Rose. Her book The Hip-Hop wars is all about finding third ways out of these sociological labyrinths.
Have you read it? That was an unhelpfull classification.
I'd like a panel that could discuss separating our attitudes as a society towards the depiction of violence and drug use (etc.) from from our conversations about musical genre. This ends up being the golden albatross around hip-hop's neck, as if those musicians created the entire idea of murder and sex.
Hip-hop's reputation in the media is one that frequently and unapologetically celebrates base human urges. But society's judgement against that is not about hip-hop as a genre.
Those topics push buttons and get attention. It's the reason 24-hour news networks run the stories they do. But that discussion tirelessly drags any talk about hip-hop back to larger issues that we as a culture have yet to sort out. It reduces hip-hop to a straw man. Isn't there some other heart inside hip-hop? Some other essential reason for its existence and appeal?
Fans of every other musical genre get together and discuss what they love about their favorite artists, and those discussions bind people together. If we could strip out the narrative of how the music we love is destroying society, then perhaps we could focus on what that music really means to us, and how we (as individuals and fans) want to define it.
My first thought was something similar to this last paragraph, Nora. Why single out hip-hop? Does pop music enhance or degrade society? What about rock-n-roll? How about country and western (I am not sure, but I think murder ballads came from Americana/folk/country, and they are not exactly uplifting)? Some elements of each genre are positive, some not so much, and it the same with hip-hop.I am not sure the value of having a conversation like this specifically about hip-hop while not including the discussion of the other genres, which have similar issues. Although, yes, that would result in a panel of about 100 people and be impossible to listen to.
There are many positive messages in hip-hop and other genres, although I don't think mainstream media likes to focus on those messages as much. Perhaps a good panel would be why MSM chooses to focus the way it does, which sometimes just perpetuates a lot of stereotypes about marginalized groups.
Well, I would say it's almost near impossible to debate hip-hop itself. It's just too big, complex and diverse. It might have gotten to a point where we don't know what hip-hop is.
Saying Hip-Hop is bad or good is just too silly and generic. It's positive influence and whether it is of any influence at all is completely different for each person. Which makes it quite impossible to debate. Everyone has a different 'Hip-Hop'. It is a huge collection of artists and ideas, of which we all have a different selection available to us.
So I'm not sure if it's useful to discuss Hip-Hop. From what it seemed like looking at this latest debate. They should have been (and in some ways were) discussing African-American culture and society, Not Hip-Hop.
If someone feels the need to have a panel debate. Talk about the reason whenever I'm flipping channels and come across 'hip-hop dancers', 9 times out of 10 I see them dancing to R&B. Talk about that for 2 hours, I might learn something.
Suggested panel members: Abstract rude of Project Blowed, Bell Hooks, Byron Hurt of Hip-Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/hiphop/
Hip-Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes is a 2006 documentary film written, produced, and directed by Byron Hurt.
Initial release date: October 10, 2006
Director: Byron Hurt
Running time: 56 minutes
Language: English
Genres: Indie, Music, Social issues, Gender Issues, Documentary
A conversation about hip hop that includes artists and listeners/fans/consumers of hip hop would be wonderful. I believe starting with this group would really get at some basic questions that we should acknowledge and address (e.g. Why do we love hip hop?? What inspires artists? How has hip hop been part of our lives?), which I think would lead into more complex discussions (e.g. Why are we even debating hip hop?). Overall, I think the ideas that would be co-created among the participants would not only inform us about the current state of affairs, but would allow participants to bounce ideas off one another and further inspire us to appreciate and acknowledge the complexities and richness of the genre.
Here's one reason: a lot of people (mostly white people) talk about "hip-hop" when they mean Black. Given that, we can't have a conversation about music when a lot of people would rather discuss race and racism.
jay, i was in the mideast a decade ago with about a dozen of the most progressive thinkers in a dozen of the world's spiritual traditions: really thoughtful people who virtually never got mired in an "us and them" discourse thread. but after traveling together for several weeks the conversations got banal and silly and you could not get a straight answer out of anybody. finally, at the last panel, the eight remaining "great thinkers" dissolved into a free for all over the temperature in the room. the organizer, a very wise and thoughtful guy, leaned over to me and said "it is time to go home when your room full of brilliant minds has dissolved into one big blithering idiot, and it always happens." just sayin'…
I think we'd need to stop framing the debate as "art: good or bad?" Because, at the end of the day, that's what this tired-ass conversation has always been. No art is bad. Doesn't mean everyone loves it, but expression is never in and of itself wrong. What I think would be really cool would be more discussions about the unique expressions that hip-hop has given rise to amongst musical genres, and what it as a musical form and cultural movement has allowed to come to light.
Just saw you on 'Up' and checked into you site for a 'look see' on what you were about and your point of view.
I am not an 'intellectual'. I am merely a 'Saloon Entertainer' whose forte is 'entertaining'. I 'do' have opinions like everyone else and should be merited based on same. I see no difference when it comes to the 'celebrated'.
This isn't a 'new' debate. This same 'debate' existed as far back as the 'Roaring 20's' when Jazz and Big Bands were introduced, so there is no particular 'cerebral analysis' that makes Hip Hop much different from the ones held in the past.The 'Roaring 20's, Rock and Roll both had those 'debates' because of their drastic impact on the society. Hip Hop isn't any different and as quiet as it's kept it stems from the 'Funk Music' infusion of the 70', but I digress.
Just a thought…..
Next time one of these 'debates' is aired, just pour the beverage of your choice and listen to 'intellectuals' complicate something that is really very simple and not answer the 'real' question; In the end will be better for it or not. Hint…there is an historic pattern/sequence that will answer that too, and in that end, there is little we can do about it.
Just a thought…..
I think whether what genre of music might it be, song writers and musicians should be responsible enough to consider their listeners. Music spreads, and music influences listeners. http://www.facebook.com/The.SmithIII