Why dudes need to tell other dudes to stop making asses of themselves on the internet.
Ill Doctrine is a video blog on music, politics and culture, launched in 2007 by Jay Smooth. We will be premiering two episodes a week on ANIMAL. Older episodes can be found at IllDoctrine.com and you can follow Jay on Twitter here.
Thank you so much for making this. I don't know how to put into words the relief I feel, seeing a guy understand that this matters.
Amen Jay!
Wow, what a fantastic video. Thank you for posting this. Very powerful words that many should really listen to.
This is great. You're so very correct about all this.
Sharing this with my son. (And I love how you say "doooods.")
Get 'em Jay! Schooling these fools is a daily struggle and I'm glad you're a part of the anti-idiot army.
Totally hear you, but 4chan (at least the "troll section", there's a lot of benign '4channers' too), for example, is just an ocean of sociopaths, and realize that part of the desired outcome of their trolling is retorts just like this. The only way to stop stuff like that long-term is to not give those people what they want, and while I'm sure you have the best of intentions, you kinda are by making this video.
Some food for thought.
This video wasn't aimed at 4chan trolls. It was aimed at the people interacting with them on a regular basis. Engaging with 4chan trolls on the internet might not be terribly effective, but chances are they're not nearly so tough in real life; a good calling-out might do some actual good there.
I agree with Elizabeth here. Acknowledging inappropriate behavior, and in the case mentioned, grossly inappropriate, is the first step in countering hateful actions and speech. Staying quiet and hoping things will someday be different is exactly the attitude this video is challenging.
Heck, bringing 4chan into it at all was kinda unneeded. I mean, even without straying into those Internet borderlines- go to any website. Any. Whether it's some harmless little children's site or something aimed at responsible Harvard grads, you'll find misogyny.
"Misogyny" as a term is a bird chirp noise males use to try to get laid.
For every bit of misogyny there is misandry.
Humans are dimororphically sexual; and there are winners in losers in both genders who have axes to grind.
The rest is Female Sexual Value selecting us for seeing female ax to grind interests as deserving and male's as "misogyny."
(big words, I know. google.)
God you are a fucking retard. Get your teeth fixed and stop trying to talk like you are black (you aint)
actually he's half black
Come back when you can use proper grammar. Bigger words might help too. Not probable though.
You're racist for thinking black people have a way to talk. Thanks for proving the point about people like you.
Thank you for this articulate stance and using your voice to help others.
Charming how you totally gloss over the real issue of Misandry, where your tone changes to the point that clearly implies that it’s not an issue – and your outright mention of ‘our little privileged corner of the gender spectrum’ further hardens the fact that you don’t take Misandry seriously, and might as well be making fun of it in your video and endorsing the harassment, insulting, and emasculation of men.
This is also amplified by your black and white ten seconds where you act like what you view those speaking about Misandry as, and therefore cheapen it.
Sorry to say, but your point loses a ton of weight under all the above – regardless of how many white knights or otherwise attempt to defend it.
But hey, you got girls to acknowledge you, right?
Misandry is a joke. I mean, yeah I guess it happens, but compared to misogyny, it's a joke. Women are much more threatened then men. Just look it up. Do some research. Until then, shut your damn mouth and get the hell out of here.
Anyway, Jay, you have a great video here. Thank you for speaking out against the kind of people like "Whoa Now" and "Corner of the Internet". It's great to have men share the same views.
Double standards are a joke. Tell that to any man in family court.
Men are discriminated against in family court not because of misandry but because society presumes child-rearing is the role of the woman. It's the justice system saying "oh, look at the women, they're always soft and gentle and they can't go out and earn money for themselves and their children, we must protect and shelter them!" ultimately belittling mothers and reinforcing the view that women are weak.
The problem with a lot of mens rights activists is they fail to see that they and feminists have a common enemy which is the patriarchy. The patriarchy hurts men as well as women through enforced gender roles and stereotyping, so instead of fighting each other on definitions, we should focus on that.
Any man?
Including the ones who rape their kids (statistically more likely to be a male relative)? What abou the ones who beat their partner (statistically more likely to be a male partner)?
Surely you don't rally mean ANY man?
More child abuse is fem perpetrated than male.
And females start as many physical fights as males in intimate relationships.
Also if nurture syndrome is used as excuse to get fem perps off in court, why doesn't nurture syndrome defense apply to male perps(such as child boinkers)? Who would be the main nurture syndrome vectors in male upbringing?…
Actually, the reason men have problems in Family Court is because MEN SET WOMEN UP TO BE THE CARE TAKERS. Nice work, sorry to see it's biting you in the ass. Guess you should pay a little more attention when feminists speak out against being labeled. Maybe if you did, you'd realize WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE IN TRYING TO GET RID OF THIS NOTION. It is not a WOMAN'S fault that family court does that. We have almost NO POWER in that regard, we haven't for hundreds of years. So you only have yourselves to blame for that. And now? You're just adding to this horrible idea by blaming women for family court problems. Think about it. Recognize we're all on the same side of gender issues.
Wait, so the idea that you have privilege is more disturbing to you than the constant harassment and bullying this woman has faced for the suggestion that she will, at some point in the future, speak her mind on a topic that matters to her? Priorities, man. You've got 'em.
Political contest to political speech is only called harassment and bullying when is occurs against females or feminist arguments.
He's right. You andro-warriors are just more sexists trying to smokescreen the real issue, which is the abuse that's happening right now to a woman.
Well, quite.
Your just trying to smoke screen the abuse that's happening right now to a child at a mother's hands.
Misandry does happen.
It is a real issue.
But it is not as common as misogyny and it is not culture-supported. Individual accounts of misandry should be dealt with in the same way that misogyny is dealt with, but it is NOT an excuse to ignore misogyny or pretend that misandry is present in every misogyny, because it is not.
His response to people who take up the flag of misandry against an obvious misogynistic cause is dismissive, as it should be, because it IS a derailing tactic; a victim ploy.
Guys are priviliged. White males will NEVER experience the kind of culture-wide devaluation that other gender-associations and racial associations will in a white-male dominated culture. If you disagree, you're self-important.
Shut the fuck up.
Culture-wide devaluation? You mean like regarding marriage, where at this point men are looked to as breadwinners and if not they're automatically seen as failures, INCLUDING stay at home dads who have received ridicule and even had cops called on them at the park for watching their children play?
What about the TRUE FACT that women will give a man more attention the more money he says he earns? That men are held up to many physical trials as women and have many hurdles to jump over?
Or perhaps the realm of child support, where men are shit on at lightspeed, custody deferred to women instantaneously and men immediately locked into paying child support or going to fucking jail, even though MORE WOMEN THAN MEN DEFAULT ON CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS DESPITE THE FORMER WINDING UP WITH THE KIDS MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. And the fact of no-fault divorce means that any man who marries a woman can immediately be fucked, even with a prenup(judges can overrule them for any reason) – and if they get the man out of their house and claim it first, they can actually FORCE HIM TO PAY FOR A HOUSE HE CAN'T LIVE IN.
Oh yeah, and women cheating on their husbands, having kids who are NOT THEIRS, and then the man has to pay child support EVEN IF THE WOMAN LEAVES HIM TO GO MARRY/LIVE WITH THE KID'S REAL PARENT, PLUS ALIMONY. How about that women initiate most divorces? That fatherless families have children with much higher rates of several problems, such as suicide or running away from home?
How about the overall devaluing of men as beings in the court system, as men get harsher sentences than women EVEN FOR THE SAME CRIME? That a woman and a man can both be drunk, have sex, and if she feels bad she can fling the word rape and RUIN HIS LIFE PERMANENTLY, but he can't do the same to her? If it's 'rape' when she's drunk, what if he's drunk? What if he's drunk and she's not and they have sex, did she rape him? Do you know how much he'd get laughed at?
Or perhaps you're going to whine about the wage gap despite the recession jobloss coming in at over 80% of jobs lost by MEN, whereas women were merely tickled? Twice as much breast cancer funding than prostate cancer funding despite equal occurrence and survival rates? The fact that if a man is getting fucked up hardcore in the street barely anyone is likely to help in comparison to a woman, where hordes of men will come to her rescue?
Or pregnancy, which is 100% within the woman's rights and men have nothing to do with it? You do realize that true equality would give men power to force abortion or immediately disconnect from the child and the mother without paying child support, right? After all, his sperm was necessary. That would be birth equality – men having a say in such things, not just WOMAN'S PREGNANT, HERE'S A SHITTON OF RIGHTS AND POWER TO PROTECT YOU FROM EVERYTHING.
And here's the kicker: Come up with meaningful responses to the above WITHOUT bringing up women's problems. Not one woman's problem. I'm aware they've got plenty, but you just can't handwave the problems men have away by stating "X IS WORSE" or "WELL WOMEN HAVE Y".
Look, really–it's pretty clear that you have issues with women. But does really, crying "waaaaah misandry misandry" and slagging all women because of 1) the actions of a handful and 2) your inability to handle a mirror being held up to your sexism just makes you look like…well, like you have issues with women.
He doesn't seem to have issues with women. More issues with the systems in place that elevate women to a higher standing within certain procedures.
Whether you like it or not that is misandry.
I would say that he seems to have issues with perceived lack of control, real or possible, in his own life, and the panic that stems from such a perception. The rest looks like a smokescreen.
That's just all talk. "Lack of control" and the like. Ie the same thing could be said about feminism/feminists.
WHOOPS HOW DID THAT GET POSTED HAHAHA. I MEANT TO SAY IM STUPID.
MAN AM I STUPID.
Gosh, you sound clever and interesting. I bet you are fun at parties.
I'm confused though;
Does everything you say mean she actually DIDN'T receive death threats? Because this is a thread about Sarkeesian, and you seem to be derailing it to talk about something else as though it negates what she went through.
Ahah. 1/3 of that is patriarchy/rape culture problems, 1/3 youth rights issues, and prostate cancer and all? Guess what? Women had to do SOMETHING to get breast cancer fundings and make breast cancer acknowledged. Maybe men should do something about prostate cancer themselves too? (sorry for language, I'm french)
Thank you for stating good points, now enjoy being ignored by misandrists
Hahaha, wow. Okay dude, you take the cake for angry woman-hating male. Congrats. I love all your 'true fax' going on here too. Cute.
What woman dumped you to make you feel like this? Or should I ask how many? Because generally men like you are only worked up like this because they got hurt by a lady.
Sorry but, you're not speaking out about misandry. You're just a woman hater.
DID I SAY LADY? I MEANT BITCH-ASS-CUNT, SORRY TO ALL YOU GENTLEMEN.
"But it is not as common as misogyny and it is not culture-supported."
Actually that's reversed. Especially the "culture supported" part.
I agree "whoa now."
Aw look at the above comments. It’s not just women they’re afraid of- they’re afraid of anyone who supports women too. The hate is so real it’s disgusting.
You are a complete and utter moron. The "hate" is a joke. Were all making fun of you.
See how easy it is? Your responses are so automatic, so ignorant. The whole point here is not that misoginy isnt real. Its that people like you so blindly support whatever you're told.
Thanks for reminding everyone how stupid the average woman is. I'm sure women will be treated with respect quite soon, what with people like you supporting them.
The thing I don't get is how the trolls are dangerous. His only example is harassment that ended up helping her. Where's the danger bro?
Have you *read* the threats she is facing? Have you tried imagining getting that kind of vitrol aimed at you personally, at that volume, when your real name and your face is out there? When you're out in public looking at the people around you and wondering if one of them was behind those rape and murder threats? They're not just words on the internet. They have impact.
She is getting, RAPE and DEATH threats from hundreds of men online. Imagine if just one of them just found out where she lived. That one person won't be considered harmless anymore. And if you've ever been tormented in your life(which from your statement sounds like you haven't) you would know that words and harassment can cause real and lasting harm regardless of who their from and who they are for. Do some research on the harassment she's receiving, you will see it's not so harmless.
You don't see danger in rape threats and death threats? Really?
Wow, wish I could be all "cool and edgy" and sociopathic like you.
I’ve actually had people threaten to kill me. And I’ve also had people try to kill me…both on multiple occasions. They are qualitatively very different. So I don’t agree that words by themselves are dangerous. But I see your point. She put herself out there, people reacted with threats and she is affected. Perhaps that is danger. Plus, I didn’t realize that she was threatened with rape/murder, which I agree could be frightening to the average person. Particularly, because the average person doesn't know that most victims of violent crime have a personal relationship/history with the perpetrator (yes, blogging hasn't changed the fact random violent crime is rare). My bad on that anyway. But still…those fools aren’t going to do shit. Your insights on human nature would be better focused on how people tend to be too full of shit, too flaky, too lazy, too stupid, and too humane to follow through with talk like that…infinitely more if it is over the net.
And one last thing to consider: I would argue that someone who puts themselves out to the world should have the foresight and wherewithal to deal with such a situation…especially emotionally. Actors, reporters, authors. You want to reach the masses…congrats, you did it. Fair? Not for me to decide…or you.
Seriously, dude?
How does it benefit anyone for you to sit there and minimize someone else's experience every way you can?
It is possible that some of them know her personally and that the fact most survivors knew personally their aggressors doesn't mean there is no case where they didn't, take that as empirical experience.
Wow. This is the part where extreme prejudice, hyper-sensitivity and/or a strong will to find a soap box affects reading comprehension (in your case MYF I think you're just maybe dumb). I think the perfect response is : You are all pussies. Haha. Get it? Good one right? Haha.
Oh, your perfect response…which I will rob you of…is "You are a dick." Haha.
Oh my goodness, you are quite the sociopath! And exactly the kind of male the video guy was talking about. Congrats on being a wretched human being who has no interest in standing up for people being bullied or hurt. Kudos to you.
Yeah. I chose a career in social work for that very reason. You are proof-positive that most people on blogs don’t know what the fuck they are talking about. And the worst part is that when presented with rational arguments they return with nonsense, (red herrings & ad hominens being the most popular). And I love how you can diagnose someone with a personality disorder from a handful of blog comments. You certainly strike me as a beacon of reason.
Jay, thank you. Much needed words, and well said.
Why are so many people worried about non-issues like femenism and misoginy.
Theres so much misandry in this world its unbelievable. Its like women find every little possible thing they could bitch about, and never shut up.
Do you really think Misandry is a more serious problem than Misoginy? Honestly?
It's pretty much common knowledge, and a fact of life, that being a straight male ANYWHERE, IN ANY COUNTRY, gives you a better quality of life than being a woman would. In fact, once you leave the industrialized world, you realize that misandry pretty much stops existing altogether, except for MAYBE a few gender roles that were created by a male society-run in the first place.
Does that mean you should ignore it when it happens? No. But the existence of Misandry does not mean that Misoginy is no longer a problem.
You are right femenism and misoginy are such non-issues they don't even exist in the dictionary! Feminism and misogyny remain quite pressing though.
So many of you bitches need some dicks thrust in your mouths so you keep your stupid mouths shut. Keep your fantasy world where misoginy exists to yourselves please.
And here we have a stunning example of a misogynist in it's natural habitat. It seems that while threatened, it begins to spout nonsense, and has no real grasp of the concept of "Irony"
Interesting point.
Jay, Fuck you. Just fuck you. You come on here, Make light of misandry, and act like you're doing us all a favor like a self important little bitch. If I ever find you in public and see you? I'll rape you and beat the everliving shit out of you, and it wont hold up in court because everyone will tell you to suck it up and not be a LITTLE BITCH ABOUT IT.
Tiresome troll is tiresome. Run along now.
Weee! I just learned how to use the Internet!
Looks like someones mum didn't hug them enough!! ::cyber hug and cyber cleaning of mouth out with soap::
OH-MY-SOCKS! at the comments here.
First of all, thanks Jay for saying these words. It's so amazing to have people like you speaking up. Men that understand the real issue with Patriarchy and gender privilege. You're awesome!
And to the people talking about misandry…com 'on. We don't live in a misandry, we live in a patriarchy. The patriarchy we live in works as a system that gives privileges to all dudes at the expense of all women. If you can't see that, it's because you're not prepared to give up your male privilege for the sake of the improvement of half of the world's lives.
Excuse my english everyone, it's not my first lenguage.
i meant "matriarchy" not "misandry". Misandry is the hatred of men (and boys), while a matriarchy is a system that's based on the former. But in a patriarchy (our reality), the hatred of females (misogyny) is what supports the system and not the other way around.
Except the Patriarchy does not run on the hatred of females. You do know that the BIGGEST and one of the most vocal groups against Women's Suffrage were… GASP, WOMEN. Who thought if they received equal powers and rights to men, THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PERFORM A PUBLIC SERVICE SUCH AS SIGN UP FOR THE DRAFT. And when it came down to it, the Men ended up… surprise, not signing them up for the draft.
It isn't hatred. There is no way you can PROVE it's hatred, and therefore CANNOT be misogyny. Discrimination or Sexism, go right ahead – but you can't prove that hatred is what fuels just about anything, thus making misogyny a goddamn buzzword.
However, the bulk of the feminist movement(who other feminists will decry NO REAL FEMINIST would say that but do it themselves) engage in continual misandry, such as the various sociology experiments where actors threatened and beat on one another in public, as a man and a woman – at one point, a woman actor was slapping her partner and pulling his hair, and a nearby woman DID A DOUBLE FISTPUMP. -THAT- is misandry – she was CHEERING as a man was assaulted.
So yeah, wah wah wah don't use that word anymore.
Finally a voice of reason!
lol, so you can't use misandry either, amirite?
You are pretty retarded.
you're an neutered idiot.
OH-MY-SOCKS! at the comments here.
Misogyny is bad. Misandry is bad. That misandry exists doesn't make misogyny any less real. The fact that some jerks treat men badly doesn't mean we ignore the fact that some jerks treat women badly.
1: HEY SAVE THE WHALES! WHALES ARE GREAT! Plus, NARWHALS!
2: Don't you know that BABY SEALS are being CLUBBED? Because of this you should SHUT UP ABOUT WHALES.
1: *boggle*
Save the Nardwuars!!!!
Goddamit, I cant post an angry comment if you actually make sense.
whats going on with all the troll shaming?
Good video, Jay. We definitely have a responsibility to speak up when we see this crap happening.
This is the first I've heard of you, and you have a new fan. xoxoxoxo love you, I'm grateful for guys like you.
THANK YOU!!!!!
Thankyou thankyou thankyou.
It's just brilliant to see a man who is also, seemingly so, a feminist.
I also advocate Hitler, and his mass jew gassings.
HEIL HITLER.
This man says smart things. (But wtf is a shook one?)
Jay, you are so amazing. I can't thank you enough! THANK YOU for being such an awesome & decent human being. YOU ROCK. And ignore these crazy comments, they just go to show that you are SO very right.
This is amazing and I love it. Thank you thank you thank you for taking woman seriously.
Great video. Thank you a lot!
Heheh, keep fighting on dude. You're exposing all these foam-at-the-mouth assholes here, and it's hilarious.
Thank you for this video.
DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS.
http://media.fukung.net/images/18666/women_intern…
Challenge Accepted, the trolls respond. http://rule34.paheal.net/post/view/868581
What the hell is this Some crap artist that cant draw. Fucking sexist. Remove this shit.
This argument is almost pathetic, because there are several glaring holes in both arguments.
1. Anita Sarkeesian's project won't be relaying any new information to the public, and all of this is known. She makes this sound like her intent instead of bringing to light the real issue of how women are presented in games.
2. Her Kickstarter campaign asked for %6000, but who needs that much money to make YouTube videos? She already had a setup and never asked for money before as far as I know. Her campaign was exploded to over $100k and growing. What is she going to do with all that money?
3. Third, presumably the videos will be on her channel instead of entering public domain. Thus, she can make money from views which shouldn't be the case. The videos should be posted on a neutral website where Sarkeesian has no authority.
4. From a feminist perspective, obviously every argument of hers will strictly concern women. But she forgets that men are also stereotyped in games, as evidenced by this blog post (http://holygrenade.com/male-stereotypes-how-baldness-pervaded-the-gaming-industry/).
She ignores the bigger picture that most characters in gaming are mischaracterized, not just women, and in turn that makes the industry seem sexist. Yes it is a male-dominated industry but 95% don't feel any resentment toward women, so to project that sort of argument (inadvertent on her part I'm sure) sends a bad message.
So the thing that needs to be said is this: A LOT of these trolls and "sexists" are just 12 year old boys. Does it excuse their behavior? Of course not. But I don't think it's a problem with world-wide sexism as much as it is about parenting. Parents tend to teach their kids to behave, but rarely how to behave on the internet.
DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS
If you still think this isn't that big a problem, check out
"cross assault" harmless jokes to, why the hell am I playing this game now
A good video overall. However, if you're trying to effect any change with your videos, I think you need to realize that the people you are making this video for are not only the people who agree with you. Your tone when talking about misandry and the fact that you used the word 'privilege' (too much cultural baggage on the word these days, I don't recommend using it, ever) alienated a lot of people who might have listened to you otherwise. Hopefully you'll read this comment and will let it influence your discussion in future videos, as I think you're an intelligent person who can send a good message if you can get people to listen.
You Sir, are a beautiful person. Thank you for your empathic and articulate response. One point I'd like to make is-true nerds understand the pain of rejection by the minority. All the nerd-Gents I know are polite, kind and social-especially to women. Please don't feel that the hateful people that incited this response are representative of the genre. They're a vocal minority. They're children (either mentally or physiologically). And not very well-behaved ones at that.
You sir, have inspired me to try and rally people to this cause, by providing them with a flag. I hope you think this is a good idea. Either way, we're on the same page here. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/150672?a=154593
I feel a little dumber after reading the title of your vlog.
Thank you. So tired of misogynist trolls. Love men who understand that for any of us to be treated fairly, we all need to be treated fairly. Get a clue trolls, if you want positive attention from women, you need to be nice to them and support their rights. Only then will anyone give a damn about your complaints.
You are wonderful, I am grinning all the way through. The Women's Code appreciates you very much.
AMAZING VIDEO, as a true man, I agree a 100% with you!!.